In both Daniel 2 and Daniel 7, we saw visions that included Last Days events. In fact, we seem to be moving from the ‘big picture’ view, to something more detailed. For instance, we didn’t see the Antichrist in Daniel 2, but we saw him in chapter 7.
Will we see the Antichrist in Daniel 8?
I believe so, but there are three main theories for this vision, and we will look all three of them and try to find the one position to safely stand on. (Hint: I’m sticking with Gabriel.)
So, let’s take a hard look at Daniel 8 and find out.
————————————
Keep this ministry alive with a donation.
Subscribe for free to Revelation Six and receive my articles in your inbox:
https://revelationsix.substack.com/subscribe
And, read my two books:
I created five Android Apps that will help you read through the Bible in a Year. You can find them here:
https://revelationsix.com/android-apps/
If you miss my rantings about geopolitics, idiocy, resource collapse and incompetent globalism, follow me on Twitter.
————————————
Daniel 8 – A Biblical Overview Of Daniel – Part 6
Let’s start with the vision:
1 In the third year of the reign of King Belshazzar a vision appeared to me—to me, Daniel—after the one that appeared to me the first time. 2 I saw in the vision, and it so happened while I was looking, that I was in Shushan, the citadel, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision that I was by the River Ulai. 3 Then I lifted my eyes and saw, and there, standing beside the river, was a ram which had two horns, and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last. 4 I saw the ram pushing westward, northward, and southward, so that no animal could withstand him; nor was there any that could deliver from his hand, but he did according to his will and became great.
5 And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6 Then he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing beside the river, and ran at him with furious power. 7 And I saw him confronting the ram; he was moved with rage against him, attacked the ram, and broke his two horns. There was no power in the ram to withstand him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled him; and there was no one that could deliver the ram from his hand.
8 Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven. 9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”
14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”
– Daniel 8:1-14 (NKJV)
That’s the vision that Daniel saw, and if you’ve been reading the Bible long enough, you’ll have a pretty good idea of who the Ram and the Goat are. However, notice the difference between this vision and the previous two:
The first two visions had four main kingdoms.
This one has just two.
Gabriel Explains
But, let’s move on to the explanation that Gabriel gives to Daniel:
15 Then it happened, when I, Daniel, had seen the vision and was seeking the meaning, that suddenly there stood before me one having the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man’s voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.” 17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.”
(NOTE: Remember verse 17. It’s important!)
18 Now, as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me, and stood me upright. 19 And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. 20 The ram which you saw, having the two horns—they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
23 “And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
26 “And the vision of the evenings and mornings
Which was told is true;
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future.”
27 And I, Daniel, fainted and was sick for days; afterward I arose and went about the king’s business. I was astonished by the vision, but no one understood it.
– Daniel 8:15-27 (NKJV)
The Time Of The Very End
When Gabriel tells Daniel that the “vision refers to the time of the end,” that ‘to the time of the end’ is לעת קץ (leh-et ketz). It means the very edge of the end. That word ‘ketz’ means the edge or the most end of the end. If you are standing on the Ketz of a ledge, your toes are hanging over, and you are just about to fall off. It’s not just the end, it’s the VERY end. But, Gabriel doesn’t end there.
Gabriel says in verse 19:
“Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be.”
The ‘latter time of the indignation’ is באחרית הזעם (beh-ah-char-eet ha-za-am, ‘ch’ as in Bach). That means ‘in the end of the rage’. HaZa’am is about as angry as you can get. Using the word ‘indignation’ is NOT strong enough.
Then, in that same verse Gabriel says:
“at the appointed time the end shall be“
The Hebrew literally says למועד קץ (Leh-mo-ed ketz), which is ‘to an appointed end’. And, with that word ‘Ketz’, it’s end-end. The very end. And, the fact that Gabriel uses that word ‘ketz’ twice tells us that he really means THE END.
The It’s-All-In-The-Future Theory
Now, here’s the question:
Is all of this ‘The End’?
I say no, but there are others who pound the table and say ‘yes’, that ALL OF THIS is in the future. Joel Richardson is the most prominent of those who say this, and I’m afraid that he claims a lot of things that he just cannot prove. For instance, he claims that Gog (of Gog and Magog) is the Antichrist, and that he’s a Muslim.
All of that is impossible.
Joel and I have argued personally over this, and we couldn’t even agree to disagree. His approach to eschatology does not allow him to see the Redemption of Israel before the Great Tribulation. And, I just don’t understand why this is so hard to see, unless there is something blocking his view.
I like Joel. He’s a decent guy and a good brother in Christ. But, his obsession with Islam is way over the the top.
The Half-Past-Half-Future Theory
Now, if this vision is broken into two parts, past and future, where is the break?
And, what was the purpose of this vision?
Well, we all know that the Persian Empire was actually two kingdoms: the Medes and the Persians. The Medes lived in the north of what we now call Iran, and the Persians lived in the south. They were the two horns of the Ram.
In Daniel 2, the Medes and Persians were “the chest and arms of silver”, and the Bear in Daniel 7. And now, they are the Ram in Daniel 8.
Gabriel then says that the Goat is Greece, and that it completely destroys the Ram. In Daniel 2, Greece is the “belly and thighs of bronze”, and the Leopard with four heads in Daniel 7. And, when the vision says in verse five of Daniel 8:
5 And as I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
The speed with which Alexander the Great destroyed the Medo-Persian Empire was nothing short of amazing. In just five years, the Alexander conquered everything, and the only thing that stopped him from going into India was the war-weariness of his army. They had fought so hard, won so much, and they wanted to go home. Otherwise, India might have been gobbled up as well. But, then the great horn is broken…
Like I said last week, Alexander died in Nebuchadnezzar’s palace in Babylon, leaving a child as his heir. And THAT launched a civil war that culminated in the Battle of Ipsus in 301 BC. The only survivors were:
Cassander
Lysimachus
Ptolemy
Seleucus
(There was one other survivor, Demetrius, who was able to escape with a few thousand soldiers, who eventually abandoned him.)
Those four generals went on to rule dynasties until Rome came along and conquered them. They were the four heads of the Leopard in Daniel 7 and the four horns of Daniel 8.
The Break Point
Now, here is where we get to the breaking point between past and future. And, I believe that it’s here, in verse 23:
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
When sin gets so bad there will be a king who will rise out of one of the domains of the four horns, and it says in verse 24:
His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
Does that sound familiar?
Here are some other familiar attributes to this fifth horn:
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. (v. 24)
And he shall exalt himself in his heart. (v. 25)
Sound even more familiar?
Yeah, it sounds a lot like this from Daniel 7:
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
That is definitely the Antichrist. And, we know from Revelation that the Antichrist is destroyed how? Well, just like it says in Daniel 8:25:
But he shall be broken without human means.
Just like Revelation 19:20 says:
20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone
So, the Antichrist is not killed by human means.
The Antiochus IV Epiphanes Theory
But, wait… we haven’t talked about the third idea that all of this happened in the past, and that the fifth horn was called Antiochus Epiphanes. It’s an interesting idea, so let’s look at it.
Antiochus IV succeeded his father, who was called Antiochus III The Great. Unfortunately, the son was no match for that patrimony, so he referred to himself as Epiphanes – or, God Manifest.
He was essentially calling himself God. And, that sounds a LOT like what is described about the Little Horn in Daniel 8. And, as a play on the name that he chose for himself, his critics called him Epimanes, or The Mad.
He certainly was full of madness, since he decided to completely destroy the worship of God at Jerusalem, in 168 BC. That attempt at the destruction of God’s people and the worship of God, lasted until 164 BC – when he died, ‘broken without hand’ (as Daniel describes).
This is where you jump up and say that we have the interpretation, and can go home. But, there’s a nice big problem. The timing doesn’t fit. Nor, did Antiochus IV have the power to cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground. Nor did he cast down the sanctuary (The Temple).
Here’s the vision in verses 9 to 12 and the explanation in 24 and 25:
9 And out of one of them came a little horn which grew exceedingly great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Glorious Land. 10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered.
Explanation:
24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people.
25 “Through his cunning
He shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;
And he shall exalt himself in his heart.
He shall destroy many in their prosperity.
He shall even rise against the Prince of princes;
But he shall be broken without human means.
Antiochus was pretty successful, but there is nothing to indicate that his might was not by his own power. He was able to destroy the ‘mighty and holy people’. He was able to use ‘prosperity’ to destroy many. And, it’s also true that we aren’t real sure about how Antiochus IV died.
Furthermore, Daniel is writing this around 560 BC. The end of Antiochus is 164 BC. That’s a little under 400 years.
But, is 164 BC the time of the absolute end? The Ketz?
Sorry, but that doesn’t fit or make sense. And remember that the vision is sealed until the end, but if we are to believe the Antiochus Epiphanes version, the beginning of the vision is in 336 BC, which is just a couple centuries from when Daniel is writing this.
Again, the vision is supposed to be about ‘the time of the END’. And, I’m sorry but this doesn’t fit. Trying to squeeze in Antiochus IV into being the Fifth Horn just doesn’t work.
The Biggest Problem
But, we have an even bigger problem than the three different interpretations of this vision. We have a time frame that doesn’t fit anything that we can understand, and it comes directly from two verses of the vision itself:
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to that certain one who was speaking, “How long will the vision be, concerning the daily sacrifices and the transgression of desolation, the giving of both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot?”
14 And he said to me, “For two thousand three hundred days; then the sanctuary shall be cleansed.”
– Daniel 8:13-14 (NKJV)
That’s six years, three months and eighteen days. And, that doesn’t fit with anything that we’ve seen anywhere else in the Bible. So, all that I have would be speculations that could be completely worthless – or worse, damaging theories that would lead you off in the wrong direction. It doesn’t fit within ANY time frame associated with Antiochus IV, since his crushing of worship of God at the Second Temple lasted only four years. And, we don’t see the Great Tribulation lasting longer than three and a half years.
Are the extra thousand-plus days a kind of preparation period before the Antichrist takeover?
I really don’t know. But, I’m sure that those who make it to that point will see it far better than you and me.
The Bottom Line
Even though there is going to be controversy over Daniel 8 for a long time to come, I’m going to stick with what Gabriel tells Daniel. Gabriel said that this vision was about the very end, and I’m not going to disagree with Gabriel. I won’t claim to understand every aspect of this, and I don’t expect to.
Gabriel told Daniel:
Therefore seal up the vision,
For it refers to many days in the future.
And, it is still sealed.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
שאלו שלום ירושלים
————————————
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you… Hosea 4:6
————————————
Keep this ministry alive with a donation.
Subscribe for free to Revelation Six and receive my articles in your inbox:
https://revelationsix.substack.com/subscribe
And, read my two books:
I created five Android Apps that will help you read through the Bible in a Year. You can find them here:
https://revelationsix.com/android-apps/
If you miss my rantings about geopolitics, idiocy, resource collapse and incompetent globalism, follow me on Twitter.
————————————